Mission Stories
Get insights on having a powerful and successful full-time LDS mission. This podcast shares inspiring stories and practical principles for embracing this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, overcoming challenges, and building a strong foundation for lifelong discipleship. Faith-promoting stories and lessons from real full-time LDS mission experiences to inspire and teach. Based on The Mission Prep Series by Shawn Record.
Mission Stories
Revelation Leads To Conversion - Mission Prep Series Class 2
This episode, "Revelation Leads to Conversion," explores the second crucial principle for an amazing and spiritual mission experience. Your sole purpose as a missionary is to help others come unto Christ.
In this deep dive, you'll learn:
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What is Conversion? It's more than just a testimony; it's a "mighty change of heart," a change in our very nature, becoming more like the Savior. It's about coming to Christ and living in a covenant with Him.
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The Only Way to Come to Christ: Scripturally, the only way to conversion is through faith in Jesus Christ, repentance, baptism, and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. Faith is the essential first step; "faith without repentance is absolutely worthless".
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The Power of Revelation: Revelation is receiving a confirmation of the truthfulness of the gospel from God. It's not just intellectual understanding, but a spiritual "knowing" that leads to action. It's the "substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen"—more powerful than what you can see or hear.
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Revelation Leads to Conversion: Revelation is the only way to begin growing the faith that ultimately leads to repentance, baptism, and the Holy Ghost.
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How to Invite Revelation: Missionaries can help others receive revelation by inviting them to feast upon the words of Christ (especially the Book of Mormon), pray sincerely, and get to church. These actions invite the Spirit, which in turn grows faith.
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Identifying the Holy Ghost: Learn how to help others recognize and identify the Holy Ghost's influence, whether it's a "peace," "joy," "still small voice," or simply when "everything just clicked" and "made sense".
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Faith and Revelation are Intertwined: Your faith grows as you receive revelation, and you receive revelation according to your faith and action. You must actively cultivate faith; it doesn't grow passively.
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Practical Missionary Advice: Study Preach My Gospel Chapter 11 on extending and helping people keep commitments. Even singing hymns can invite the Spirit.
This episode challenges listeners, especially youth preparing for missions, to seek their own revelation through faithful action and deep study, emphasizing that this process is essential for personal conversion and effective missionary work.
Yeah, because what becomes before baptism is repentance. In order for them to repent, they have to have faith. And in order to have faith, they have to receive revelation through the Holy Ghost. And the way that you help them do that is you invite them to feast upon the words of Christ, to pray and pray and pray and ask for revelation and to get to church. But there's something substantive in my soul. There's something really there. Something's happening. Like something is present. Something is powerful. So I love that it says now faith is the substance. Evidence of things not seen. It's more evidence than if I saw it. All right. Welcome back. Mission Stories Podcast. Hey, Lauren. Good evening. Good evening. So exciting whenever we get to sit down and talk about our missions and talk about the Savior. It's just great. It's great, right? Great time. Like, even if no one ever listens to our podcast anymore, the joy to even just get together and talk about this stuff with anybody is so fun. Like-minded... equally as enthusiastic people about the gospel of Jesus Christ. And it's just, it just feels good. It's just good.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So good.
SPEAKER_00:You, um, excited today. We're going to talk about the second class that I teach. This is principle number two in the series for the mission prep stuff.
SPEAKER_01:I love this one.
SPEAKER_00:This one's a good one. This one's a good one. So this one listeners, we call, this is principle number two, again, for context, just for context.
UNKNOWN:Um,
SPEAKER_00:My mission was incredible. It was so special and so spiritual. And I always ask coming home, why is it that some people didn't get the same experience that I had? I just felt like that's so unfair. And over the years I've realized, oh, okay, well, there's some things that I did or my companions did that led to a spiritual and happy experience and if everyone would do those things i think that everyone will have a better chance at a really amazing mission experience and so i kind of compiled these seven eight nine things and today we're going to talk about one that i call
SPEAKER_01:revelation leads to conversion
SPEAKER_00:revelation leads to conversion and i always try and start with i love being in a classroom with all these young kids these teenagers and I love starting with going, because when I was that age, I couldn't answer this, but you just start with this question. Like, okay, when you all become a missionary, what is your one point? There's one goal, one purpose, one simple thing. And it's really hard to get the answer out of that, even though the answer is really simple and quite direct. Lauren, what's your one purpose as a missionary?
SPEAKER_01:To help others come unto Christ.
SPEAKER_00:That's it. That's your one thing we're doing is leading souls
SPEAKER_01:to Christ.
SPEAKER_00:To Christ, right? Yes. Yeah. And these are all good. I'm glad you brought that up because it's semantics, right? There's all kinds of different words we use in the church, conversion or testimony or scriptures talk about coming to Christ or turning to Christ. It's all kind of talking about the same thing. But today we're going to talk about conversion and we're going to talk about what it is. specifically what it is, because once we define that, then we really can drill down and understand why this principle, which is called revelation leads to conversion. And in fact, I'll go deeper. Revelation is the only way to lead to conversion. Why this is such a powerful, powerful and important principle that if you don't learn on your mission, you, how can you learn, how can you lead people to Christ? If you don't know how to, what, how conversion happens. And so this principle is all about this practical knowledge of how do you lead people to Christ. And I'm going to say, Revelation not only leads people to Christ, but it's the only way to lead people to Christ. Okay, so let's start off with this. Let's just get your opinion. What do you think that means, Revelation leads to conversion? What in your minds, your words, what do you think that means?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I feel like you have to break down what each of those words mean, right? Revelation and conversion are kind of two big words that a lot of people don't fully understand.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, let me ask you. So let's focus on conversion. What is conversion? Is it testimony? So if you have a testimony, does that mean you're converted?
SPEAKER_01:No.
SPEAKER_00:Is conversion a change of heart? Is conversion I'm strong and active in the church? Is conversion I'm a missionary? You don't think conversion and testimony are the same
SPEAKER_01:thing? No. Okay. Conversion...
SPEAKER_00:But when people get up and say... Every week, I'd like to bury, or month, I'd like to bury my testimony. And I know this church is true, and I love my mom and dad. Like, we get so stuck on a lot of words, like testimony or conversion, that they almost lose their meaning. So I'm glad we're starting to define it. Sorry, I interrupted you.
SPEAKER_01:Go ahead. Oh, it's okay. Conversion, I like to think of, is a change in our nature rather than just a change in our behavior. I feel like sometimes when we have a testimony, it can influence a change in our behavior. But when we're converted, it changes our very nature. And so when the scriptures talk about Alma, when he's going through his repentance process, he talks about, I had a mighty change of heart. And they talk about how the only way to come unto Christ, it talks about it all throughout the Book of Mormon, The only way to come unto Christ is to be reborn and have a mighty change of heart. That's conversion.
SPEAKER_00:So what does that have to do with Christ? Well, we'll get into that. We'll get into that. Okay, so your idea of conversion is, obviously, again, your purpose as a missionary is to lead souls to Christ. You yourself need to come to Christ. And in that process, or when we come to Christ, conversion happens. And you're defining conversion as, in the Nephi sense, a mighty change of heart. I'll never forget, I don't remember how long I'd been on the mission, but we're out in the street contacting in Donetsk, Ukraine, and I came to this man and I just looked at him and I'm just like, I don't know why. I just love that man. I don't know why. I just have a compassion and a heart and a love. Can I talk to you, please? And he looked at me and got so, just hatred in his eyes. And he spit on me. I'd never been spit on before. And typically in that situation, you get angry. Yeah, you get mad. You get feelings of hurt. You get feelings of, but I didn't. I loved him so much more with such compassion. And all I wanted was his happiness. And it's like, there wasn't anything a guy could do to me. And I kind of started thinking, oh, maybe that's the change of heart. Right? We go our whole lives as little babies. And all we care about is what our parents are doing and thinking and saying. And then you realize that, oh, there's this whole world outside of my parents, this social world, other people that exist. And now all you care about is what your peers think. And in this process, it's a very selfish kind of self-centered process, right? It's just all about me and what am I experiencing and who am I to them? And naturally, we all kind of think of ourselves. So when you say mighty change of heart, I understand that as I go from a selfish, fallen person to someone who thinks about myself constantly to having a heart that is more towards Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, but others specifically. And in that moment when I talked to that man, I just loved him so much. I think I was like, maybe this is what the result of the mighty change of heart is. What do you think it is? You said conversion is a mighty change of heart. What is it?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I agree with everything that you said. I also think a change of heart has to do with a willingness to turn your will to Heavenly Fathers. I love this principle, the fact that it's revelation leads to conversion because when you receive revelation, you're learning more and more, right? Yeah. I think about it like I'm learning more about my Savior. I'm learning more about Jesus Christ, who he was, what he does for me, what he did for others, what he continues to do for us, how he acted towards others, how he reacted to situations. And you think about how you can become more like that. So that change of heart is becoming, I think, more like our Savior.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so I totally agree. And I think that's one half of conversion. It is our heart changing, us becoming more like our Savior. I think that's one half of it. I think the other half is, I always like the visual of the song and the scriptures, the wise man built his house upon the rocks. I love it so much because scriptures refer to this foundation that if we're on top of, it doesn't matter how hard the wind blows. It doesn't matter how cold it is or how big the waves are. Our house is built firmly on that foundation. it will never fail. Whereas the man who built his house on the sand, all of it will crumble because there's no foundation, right? So I like to draw this picture on the board when I'm doing this class of a foundation next to a sandy ground and the house on that foundation. And I go, this here is coming to Christ or slash this here is conversion. So I think one half of conversion is what you said. It is a mighty change of heart. It's us becoming like the savior. I think the other half is, entails exactly what gospel means, good news, which is that I'm not on my own anymore when I come to Christ. God doesn't see me in his justice and my sins. He sees me with the Savior. So the second part is coming to the Savior and living in a covenant with him. This part is even more important. So the question is this, Lauren, how specifically, again, if our one goal is to bring souls to Christ, and that is conversion. What is the way to come to Christ? And scripturally, it is clearer than anything that there is only one way to come to Christ. Christ even says, it's my doctrine. And if you talk of any other doctrine, more or less than this, it cometh of evil. Like this is my doctrine. I will preach this doctrine. He repeats it more than anything. So I think the second part of conversion or coming to Christ, we have to understand how, what exactly is it? And I'm not talking about revelation because I'm saying that revelation leads to the how to come to Christ. Revelation is not coming to Christ. Revelation is what starts the process of coming to Christ. So what would you say? I mean, am I speaking too cryptically? And is it like, like, what do you think is the way, the one and only way to come to Christ?
SPEAKER_01:Through faith in Jesus Christ and his atonement, repentance, baptism, and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost.
SPEAKER_00:By the end of this class that I teach, um, I make the class say that 35 times because I've drawn it up on this board with this foundation in this house and a person standing on that foundation. And I say, how does one come to Christ? And typically in the church, we'll be like, well, you got to go to church. Well, you got to read your scriptures. We got to believe you got to do all these answers like these primary answers. We won't read the scriptures, but truly what you said is the one and only way to come to Christ. It has to start with faith. Faith is the first principle of our existence. It's the first principle of the gospel. And faith leads to repentance. We won't repent unless we have faith in Christ. We won't. And faith without repentance is total bunk.
SPEAKER_01:Bunk?
SPEAKER_00:It is. You tell me, honestly, of what value is faith without repentance?
SPEAKER_01:Nobody repents if they don't have faith.
SPEAKER_00:That's right. And the scriptures don't say to come to Christ and be converted, you just need to be faithful. You just need to have faith. No, faith is one fourth of the requirement to be converted and come to Christ. The second principle is repentance. So faith without repentance is absolutely worthless. And once you've, through faith, fallen on your knees in humility and repented, you now can go to the third step, which is enter into a covenant with God through the ordinance of baptism. That's what baptism is. It's entering into that covenant and saying, okay, I promise that I will continue to have faith and repent my whole life. And in exchange, Christ says, then I save you. I will suffer for your sins, right? And then after that, we get this great, great, powerful gift of the Holy Ghost. And we'll go into more detail in another episode about what that is. But okay, so... Having a mighty change of heart is the process of faith, repentance, baptism, and get the Holy Ghost. Conversion is coming to Christ through faith, repentance, baptism, and the Holy Ghost. Have we drilled it in enough?
SPEAKER_01:I think
SPEAKER_00:so. Or should we say it 30 more times this episode?
SPEAKER_01:Y'all will hear it. Y'all will hear it. I trust.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so if we've clearly defined what conversion is, coming to Christ through faith, repentance, baptism, and get the Holy Ghost, then what the heck is revelation? So before we can tie those two together, let's define what revelation is. What do you think? What do you think is revelation?
SPEAKER_01:I think of kind of breaking it apart as to revelation, but also having revelatory experiences. For example, Joseph Smith, when he was praying and he was seeking without Everything that he had, the truth of the gospel of what he was learning, he was able to receive a confirmation from that gift of the Holy Ghost. So when we're converted to the Lord and we have the gift of the Holy Ghost with us, it's so much easier because it's there to confirm these truths to us that we're learning. And as a missionary, it's kind of embarrassing to admit this, but honestly, I don't really care. When I went out to the field, I had no idea that anything about the covenant of baptism. I literally was a baptized member of the church and I had no idea. That's pretty normal. The promises that I made, like I had no idea that if I did this, I would receive this. And these were the specific promises. This is what I had to do. This was what Heavenly Father and Christ would do for me. I
SPEAKER_00:had no idea. But the reason you didn't know it is because you hadn't up until that point feasted upon the words of Christ. And guess what teaches you what the details of the covenant are? The words of Christ, Scripture, right? So when you dove into Scripture, you started to learn these things. Exactly. There's nothing magical about a mission that teaches us about faith or repentance or covenants or revelation. You just started reading the words of Christ and started teaching. Okay, don't be embarrassed. We are all at that point.
SPEAKER_01:I'm actually not that embarrassed. It's not that deep. But anyway, so I'm sitting at his own conference. This elder gets up and he's talking and he just invites everyone. He says, I studied the doctrine of baptism and it changed my mission. It changed the way I do missionary work. I invite you all to do it. I don't know how many people did it, but I did. Nice. And I remember he, he left a couple of transfers before I did, but at his last zone conference, I went up to him. I was like, you have no idea, but your invitation like changed my life. And you can see his, like some of my companions that were like watching this interaction and they were like, dude, he totally just like lit up. Like anyways, that's not the point. The point is that I studied the doctrine of baptism and because I knew that what these promises were that we're making when we're baptized, I recognize, okay, these things have happened in my life, but also I learned it and I know that Christ is true to his promises. And so then I could testify of it more powerfully, which then in turn helped more people get baptized that I taught.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, I love that. And this is good because we started with defining what revelation is. We kind of veered off and went back to conversion. But I'm glad because you're focusing on faith, repentance, baptism. I love that because what's more important to you listeners than to learn again? If the point is you're listening to this podcast because you're like, I want to be prepared for my mission, then the main thing we can teach you is the point of your mission is to lead souls to Christ. Oh, well, then how do I do that? Okay, great. Let's talk about how to do that and convert people. faith, repentance, baptism, and get the Holy Ghost. So the more we talk about all those four principles, I could talk about it and nothing else the rest of my life, and I would be satisfied and happy, and I would keep learning, and that's all that matters. It really is. But back to the original question. Define for me what you believe Revelation is. Because my statement here, the principle is this. Now that we know what conversion is, my statement is that No one will come to conversion, will come to Christ through the conversion of those four things without beginning with revelation. And so I really like in my class to go, let's define revelation. You have to understand what revelation is. What do you think? Define it. What do you think? What do you think? I pointed at you.
SPEAKER_01:I think revelation is receiving a confirmation of the truthfulness of the gospel.
SPEAKER_00:So it's like knowledge. It's knowing.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:How does that relate to either faith, repentance, baptism, or the gift of the Holy Ghost, in your opinion? Knowing, the knowledge that comes through a confirmation through the Holy Ghost.
SPEAKER_01:I think it leads people to action.
SPEAKER_00:For
SPEAKER_01:example... I, before the mission, had no idea how to, I didn't really understand the atonement. I didn't know how to apply it into my life. But I made it a goal to start studying it because I wanted to understand it. Because I knew that, you know, Christ died for me. I knew
SPEAKER_00:it. Yeah, you heard the words your whole life. Yeah,
SPEAKER_01:but I didn't know how it applied to me, right? And so I took this time to study it. And I will never stop talking about Stephen Robinson's book, Believe in Christ, because it's so good. It's the best. He shares the parable of the bicycle. And he talks about at the end of explaining this parable, when you understand the complete hopelessness that we have as humans, you accept the divinity of the atonement of Jesus Christ and that we need it. And so I decided to try to accept that harsh reality. Like, okay, well, I'm not making it back on my own. Like, I am not perfect. And then I... Nice. Yeah. It was a moment like that where I put in the work to understand what it was, how it applied to my life. And then afterwards, I just always kept a prayer in my heart. Like, I want to know this is true. I want to apply it to my life. I want to see the blessings come out of it. And I finally had that experience or that moment where I recognized what it was.
SPEAKER_00:Before we move on from that, give me a little, like, break it. Get a little bit abstract and spiritual here. You said you heard a voice in your head. But what was the true, how did you identify this as revelation in the Holy Ghost? Were you experiencing something in your heart, in your soul, in your spirit, or was it all just audible in your head? No.
SPEAKER_01:It's, I'd be lying if I said, oh, I felt this burning in my bosom. Like, that's personally not how I feel the Spirit. But everything just clicked instantly. Like everything just like clicked and it all just made sense. That's how I recognize that I feel the spirit. Everything just like makes sense to me.
SPEAKER_00:Is it just making sense in your head? Or are there accompanying what I'll call substances and evidences that are not seen? In other words, we always use the word feel. We feel the spirit. I don't like the word feel because feel suggests emotion. And even though our bodies and minds can express emotion after we experience the Holy Ghost, the Holy Ghost isn't emotion. The Holy Ghost is a spirit, like Joseph Smith said, when God the Father speaks to us through the Holy Ghost, it's as if his spirit in the absence of his body is speaking directly to your spirit in the absence of your body. And that experience through the Holy Ghost or through spirits, the scriptures talk about as love and peace and joy. Now, those are inadequate words because those are kind of emotional words. It's not emotion. It is a power or a peace or a still small voice. And I love that all through Scripture, they're all inadequate words, but they're doing their best to try and express something that can't be expressed in mortal terms, right? The burning of the bosom, the still small voice, right? Peace, joy, love, long suffering. All these things are trying to express what I experienced or felt. So was any of that present when you had this experience?
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely. And there were a ton of experiences like that. And it's like you said, like I can't really explain what that feels like because there are just no words, but everything just made sense.
SPEAKER_00:It's powerful too, right? When it's that much wisdom, clarity, and just light, right? It's light from God.
SPEAKER_01:It is light. And then, you know, afterwards, I'd have experiences where I saw what I learned come into play with any time that I received revelation. And then it was just a confirmation of, okay, yeah, that was light. That was true.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so this is fascinating. So, again, we defined what conversion is. I'm saying that revelation leads to conversion, so now we're trying to define revelation. You're saying that it is from God... a confirmation of truth or knowledge or something. So let's do this. In order to tie Revelation into conversion, we have to, again, understand how conversion starts. Again, what's principle number one? What's step number one in conversion?
SPEAKER_01:Are you asking me?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, sorry, faith.
SPEAKER_00:Faith, right? So what I'm going to suggest is Revelation and faith are tied together in such a necessary way that it's the only way to start to grow that faith, which will lead to repentance and then the covenants. Can you go to Hebrews 11 one? Or I can read it. I got it here. I got it
SPEAKER_01:here. Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. So to me, if we can understand this first principle of the gospel, what faith is, then we will have crystal clear understanding of what revelation is and why revelation is necessary to start conversion. Or in other words, to have faith. Okay, so with that in mind, let me read this. And this is really abstract. And when I read this in our class, it sparks a fascinating discussion. So fascinating. Okay. But this is such a good definition of what faith is. This is it. This is it. Faith, this is what it says. Now, faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Okay, what? That makes no sense. And I love talking with the kids in the class and go, define, explain that to me. What, how can you possibly have evidence in something that's not seen? And we go through 20 different scenarios where they always kind of come back to, it's not evidence unless you see it, feel it, touch it, right? Because we're mortals and we live in this world of senses and we use that sensory experience for evidence, right? Or we'll give an example of a courtroom where you were a witness of something. And the witness is the one that kind of dictates the way that trial goes. Well, you're not a witness unless you've witnessed something or seen something, right? So this scripture seems so dissonant, so conflicting with what we know as evidence. Evidence is proof. Evidence is scientific. Evidence is something I can touch, something I can smell and see. But this literally is saying the opposite. Faith is substance of things hoped for, evidence of things not seen. Faith is substance and evidence of things not seen. What? What? I don't know. What are your thoughts on that?
SPEAKER_01:I remember sitting in your class and I was sitting there so lost. I'm like, what the heck is this guy talking about?
SPEAKER_00:It's such a fact. I love this concept so much. Okay, let me tell you a story. Because this story, for me, teaches me so powerfully what faith is, by this definition, and why revelation is the only way to come to it. So I'm going to tell you the story of how I won my wife. May I? I
SPEAKER_01:love this story.
SPEAKER_00:I love this story more than you.
SPEAKER_01:Probably,
SPEAKER_00:yeah. And Kristen, my wife, agrees with all of it. Maybe there's a couple of places where she would try and correct things. Okay, so I'd gone back to my mission, living with mission buddies in Provo at the Glenwood, which was awesome. We're all dating. We're all going to school. We're all just love. It's so exciting time in the life. I was dating a girl and I knew I wasn't going to marry her. So I started to get kind of angsty and kind of like, what am I doing? What am I doing? And I kind of was getting like, I really want to find the right girl. Why am I, I keep dating girls that aren't the right girl. So one day kind of being angsty, I was in, I don't remember where at BYU, I was on campus and we're sitting there and there's this group of people having a club called the swing dance club. And I was sitting there watching, just looking around with my buddies. And over the intercom thing, someone on a microphone starts speaking. And the voice was so angelic and sweet and beautiful and kind. I immediately heard it and was drawn to it. And I was like, oh, I like that voice. That girl's voice is awesome. I like that. And then I looked over and I see where the voice is coming from. And it was so weird. I immediately looked at that person and said, see, that's the kind of person I want to marry. There was something about her countenance, her spirit, her voice, the way she looked, all of it. And I was like, that's the kind of girl I want to marry. And in that moment, I was like, okay, maybe I'll try to go after that. I don't know her. I have no idea. So I broke up with a girlfriend. I weaseled my way into the circle of friends that this girl was in.
SPEAKER_01:Weaseled.
SPEAKER_00:Or rizzed. How about that? Is that the proper way to
SPEAKER_01:say it? Yeah, sure.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I'm trying to use your language. You tell me. You
SPEAKER_01:rizzed your way in.
SPEAKER_00:I was the rizzler.
SPEAKER_01:Who taught you that? It's
SPEAKER_00:just fun to make fun of your language. So I taught me that. Okay. Have you ever heard
SPEAKER_01:me say Rizzler?
SPEAKER_00:All the time. No, I'm just kidding. Never, never.
SPEAKER_01:Keep going with your story, man.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. So I kind of worked my way into the circle. And one day we find ourselves at this restaurant with all of the kids in that group. And at the end, she and I became acquainted a little bit. And at the end of this dinner... I go, hey, is anyone willing to give me a ride home? Now my memory is Kristen immediately raises her hand and is like, I'll give you a ride. Her memory is like looking around, no one's offering. She's like, I'll give you a ride. So there's that debate to be had. Regardless, she offered a ride and I was like, sweet. Now I was still kind of angsty at this point because in my mind I was like, okay, sitting across from me for the last few weeks is the person that I would love to marry this kind of person. I'd love to marry that person. The more I got to know her, the more I knew. And yet we weren't dating and I didn't know how to date or wasn't, you know, maybe I wasn't the Rizzler, but I wasn't, I wasn't succeeding. And I, and I was just angsty. So I, we sat in the car, she's taking me home and look this, you're going to think, or people will think this is just the cheesiest way of approaching someone you like. whatever, dude. This is how I was still as fresh off my mission. And it did work. I was fresh off my mission. This is just who I was for like a year. I was just this nerdy spiritual missionary guy. So here's what I did. I said, Hey, Kristen, I read, I don't usually like, I'm not doing this for any ulterior motive. I literally just who I am. I read something that like really powerful in the scriptures this morning. I'd love to share it with you. And I was kind of angsty. Like, I don't care what she thinks. I'm never going to marry this girl anyway. So she's like, sure. I said, okay, Kristen, my whole life I've studied the Joseph Smith story, and I love him as a prophet. And I've always kind of been disappointed with the way that he expressed what happened in 1820 in New York when he claimed to see God the Father and Jesus Christ, that they appeared to him. I'm like, that's like the most important event to any of us on the planet. And yet I'm really, I've always been very disappointed with the way he described what happened there. And I said, here's why. When he talks about it, he says, I saw with my eyes and I heard with my ears God and the Son. And I said, Kristen, all throughout my studies of Scripture, I know for a fact that our faith isn't built on what we see or hear. I can give you 3,000 examples of people who saw and heard, never came to Christ, never came to faith. And so I was like, Kristen, it's so disappointing that Joseph wasted this opportunity, this one most powerful restoration event, that he wasted it and said, the reason I know this was God and Christ is because I saw them and I heard them. Like, that's not, that's like, obviously what he should have said was, I felt the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost burnt it into my soul, right? Because that's how the scriptures teach us. We can only learn truth through revelation and through the Spirit. And I'm like, Joseph, what a wasted opportunity. Why did you, no, really? Like it bothered me all the time. And then I said, Kristen, as I was studying this morning, I was studying this story. And after many years of me not liking this, the Lord answered me and taught me in pure wisdom, the most powerful thing I've ever heard. I said, well, let me read it to you real quick. And she's like, sure. So I pulled open Joseph Smith history and it said this. The power of the catacomb overcome him when he started to pray, and it said this. It, the dark power, no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me, I saw two personages, see there's the saw, whose brightness and glory defy all description. Standing above me in the air, one of them spake unto me, calling me by name, saying, pointing to the other, this is my beloved son, hear him. I was like, so Christen, I read that this morning because I have a million times and I focused in on the, I saw God, I heard God. But this time in my humility and in my prayers, the words, the following words jumped out at my heart with more power than anything. And it's when Joseph said this, when I saw the two personages, their brightness and their glory defied description. And I said in my heart, why would he even say that? Well, first of all, why would it defy description? What do you think? Why would it defy description? What does that mean? He can't describe it, right? What does that mean? Why would he say it defies description?
SPEAKER_01:He can't find the words to describe what happened.
SPEAKER_00:But he did. He tried brightness and glory. But then he says those are weak words. That's what I kind of got out of that, right? I don't know how to express what I'm going to try and express inadequately, which is I was experiencing brightness and I was experiencing glory. And the reason they defied description is because he was having a spiritual revelation. And the best words he could possibly think of were brightness and glory. If you look up in scripture what the definition of glory is, it's this. Glory is the outward manifestation of the presence of God, which is Holy Ghost. The presence of God is Holy Ghost. And when he said brightness, it's like that was just the best word I could use to express what was happening in my soul. It's not that he saw brightness. He was experiencing brightness, which is love and peace. And I looked at Kristen and I said, so Kristen, he really was saying inadequate words and even qualified it by saying it defies description. I can't describe what I'm experiencing here. But when he attempted to say brightness and glory, he literally there was saying the Holy Ghost is was confirming to me that this is the Father and the Son. And so I looked at Kristen and I said, so Kristen, if Joseph Smith, through brightness and glory or the power of the Holy Ghost or revelation, knows that Jesus Christ lives and God the Father lives, then I know just as powerfully as he does. And I looked at her and guess what? She was crying. And I had her.
SPEAKER_01:Oh my
SPEAKER_00:gosh. I had her at that point because then she looked at me and said, well, If that's true, if that's the doctrine, she said, then I also know that God lives because I have felt the brightness or the glory. She's like, I don't describe it that way. I've said it feels warm or it feels joyful. But if Joseph is expressing it in brightness and glory, we're all talking about the same thing that defies description. Our mortal words can't describe it, but we're all talking about the same thing, which is revelation from God. So now if I go back to the definition of faith, faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. So could Joseph have been blind in that experience and had the same powerful conviction that that was God the Father and Jesus Christ, do you think?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Why?
SPEAKER_01:Because he wasn't relying on... his senses. Like he wasn't relying on his eyes to be like, Oh, I saw God check. Like he's real. I saw Jesus Christ check. He's real. I mean, you just spent like 10 minutes talking about it. Like he felt a confirmation and he felt the Holy ghost confirming that it truly was heavenly father and his son, Jesus Christ. And you don't need your eyes to feel the Holy ghost.
SPEAKER_00:So how perfect is Hebrews one 11 or 11 one defining faith as it's a substance, right? When I feel the Holy Ghost, I can't see it or feel it or touch it or hear it. But there's something substantive in my soul. There's something really there. Something's happening. Like something is present. Something is powerful. So I love that it says now faith is the substance of something that I'm just, I hope it's there, right? But it's the evidence of things not seen. It's more evidence than if I saw it or heard it or touched it. The evidence that is unseen is the Holy Ghost. That's the Holy Ghost. So if the definition of faith is that, then I'm claiming that revelation is necessary in order for us to have faith. That substance and that evidence is revelation of the Holy Ghost. So in order for me, oh, by the way, the story ended very, very well, because guess what? We dated and we dated and we got married. Now, 26 years later, We're like paradise on earth. It's heaven on earth.
SPEAKER_01:I love
SPEAKER_00:Kristen. She is an angel. She's perfect person. So yeah, that story taught me. Oh my goodness. So as a missionary, then you listeners, your goal as a missionary, again, is to lead souls to Christ. Okay. How do you lead souls to Christ? Faith, repentance, baptism, the gift of the Holy ghost. Okay. How do I lead someone to faith?
UNKNOWN:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:What you do is you help them receive revelation. Now, Lauren, there were certain, you had said in the beginning, what would you say? Something about an action, something of action, like it causes us to act. I don't remember what you said.
SPEAKER_01:Revelation leads us to act.
SPEAKER_00:Is that what you said? I think so. So what are the things that, on your mission, that best, what are the best ways to help someone receive revelation, which then leads to faith, repentance, baptism, and get the Holy Ghost?
SPEAKER_01:The invitations, you extend them, which is some of the most important. Reading their scriptures, specifically the Book of Mormon. Praying, going to church.
SPEAKER_00:And that's the fascinating thing, that if I can help my friends or my investigators keep commitments, I invite them, and if I can help them keep commitments to do those three things, those three things, not me, not the church, not anything else, but those three activities are will invite the Spirit or revelation into their hearts. And when they experience it, their faith grows. And guess what happens when their faith grows?
SPEAKER_01:They're converted.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, because they repent. And then they get baptized and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
SPEAKER_01:Hey, and a little Preach My Gospel shout-out. Chapter 11, all about extending commitments and helping your friends keep them. If you can study... This is my witness. Let me show you all. But if you... can study and learn from chapter 11 of Preach My Gospel, if you can find out the best way to extend commitments, you will become an effective missionary fast.
SPEAKER_00:Nice.
SPEAKER_01:You will not waste any time with those who are not keeping commitments.
SPEAKER_00:Why? Because what does keeping commitments do?
SPEAKER_01:It helps people prepare to be baptized.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, because what becomes before baptism is repentance. In order for them to repent, they have to have faith. And in order to have faith, they have to receive revelation through the Holy Ghost. And the way that you help them do that is you invite them to feast upon the words of Christ, to pray and pray and pray and ask for revelation and to get to church. When they do those things, when they come to church and they witness, I love the scripture in the D&C that says, the power of godliness is manifest in the ordinances of the priesthood. So whenever there's an ordinance of the priesthood happening, the opportunity to feel the presence of God or revelation of the Holy Ghost is there. Well, if we invite them to church and they see the ordinance of sacrament, the power of godliness will be manifest if they're looking for it. Oh, it's so good, dude. It's so powerful. This is the secret of doing missionary work. Invite them to do these three things. That will lead them to revelation and their faith will grow. Then they'll repent and come to baptism. It's so great. It's so great. Let me give you a little further evidence of this principle. Matthew 16, 13 to 17. When Jesus came unto the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am? And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist. Some say you're Elias, and others, Jeremias, or one of the other prophets. And then Christ said unto them, Whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And here's what Jesus answered. He said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona, for flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father which is in heaven. What do you think that means?
SPEAKER_01:I mean, the same as what you're talking about, Joseph Smith. It wasn't that he saw Jesus Christ. It wasn't through his flesh and blood that he knew that it was the Christ. It's because he received the confirmation that it was.
SPEAKER_00:How powerful is that? Yeah. It doesn't matter that we're walking and talking with Christ, Peter. The Holy Ghost that is burnt on your soul, God's existence and the Savior's existence, is what gives you the knowledge and the wisdom and the happiness that Jesus lives. What a powerful, powerful principle. Any thoughts on this? Yeah. Yeah. It's
SPEAKER_01:just so good. It's so clear. It
SPEAKER_00:really is. It's so clear and it's so good. I'll tell you, you know what? I think this is a perfect place to end, right? Instead of going into a different story, I've got a couple here, but keep listening to the podcast, you guys, because we're just going to keep bringing stories and experiences that confirm and verify all these ideas and principles. And today, I think our purpose was to just introduce this principle to you that revelation is what leads to conversion. And man, if you can understand this, you will be an effective missionary. But before you can be an effective missionary, guess what? All of you listeners, you 16, 17, 18-year-old, 19-year-old youth, you also have to follow this process in order for you to come to Christ. I don't care that we've been born and raised in the church.
SPEAKER_01:That doesn't mean anything.
SPEAKER_00:It doesn't. Because if you don't come through the process of feasting on the words of Christ and praying for answers and participating in the ordinance of the priesthood with real true intent, then you won't feel or recognize the Holy Ghost, which then your faith doesn't grow, which then you'll never be led to repent yourself, which then means your covenants don't really exist. That's a harsh thing to say, right? Yeah.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:How would you edit me or correct that? No, I
SPEAKER_01:wouldn't say anything.
SPEAKER_00:You're not going to say anything?
SPEAKER_01:I can say your covenants can't justify you.
SPEAKER_00:Without faith and repentance, those are the requirements on your end. That's what you commit to do. So if you don't have faith and repentance, what good is your baptism? Yeah, I know. That's controversial to say, right?
SPEAKER_01:It's true, though. And I will say, I know you said... thoughts and i said nothing but something just came i love the way that literally when you say faith is the foundation of everything like it is the foundation of everything and i was thinking it's true that we receive revelation according to our faith
SPEAKER_00:yeah yeah
SPEAKER_01:so if i'm they're intertwined right okay yeah i mean it's just like a huge like circle that just like keeps on What's that, like an electric circuit, how it just keeps going and going and going around? It is, yeah. Like, say I'm reading my scriptures on a Tuesday morning, and I have this question, and I'm kind of just—
SPEAKER_00:Wait, what time is it? Because that's an interesting detail that it's a Tuesday. What time?
SPEAKER_01:8.42. Okay,
SPEAKER_00:keep going. In the morning, a.m. Now I understand the story. Okay, cool. Keep going.
SPEAKER_01:Say—oh, this is just hypothetical. It's not an actual story. Don't worry. But say I'm reading— Tuesday at
SPEAKER_00:8.45, got
SPEAKER_01:it. 42 okay sorry
SPEAKER_00:um
SPEAKER_01:say i'm just reading the book of mormon and i just reading it to read it reading it because my mission president told me reading to reading it because i know i should and i i want something out of it but i don't have the faith that i'll actually receive anything
SPEAKER_00:nice
SPEAKER_01:i'm not gonna receive anything awesome yeah great point like the I always talked about this in the field, but the intention that you place behind every action matters.
SPEAKER_00:And let me bring in the other side and show how they're entwined. When I truly was like faced to go on a mission, I was like, my life's pretty good. I'm not sure if, you know, I said, well, there's, I've been told if I'll just pray, I'll get a revelation. And if I get revelation that I'm going and I'll be a good missionary. So I decided without any preparation, without any work, without any reading the scriptures or serving other people or I would just go and ask God, hey, do you exist? Tell me you exist, and Christ lives, and the church is true, and the Book of Mormon's real, and I'll go on a mission. And so I went up and prayed. Nothing. I didn't get revelation. I didn't get the Spirit. I didn't get anything. You know why?
SPEAKER_01:How do you say nothing in Russian?
SPEAKER_00:Ничего.
SPEAKER_01:Ничего.
SPEAKER_00:Вообще ничего. But you know why I didn't get anything?
SPEAKER_01:Why?
SPEAKER_00:Because I wasn't exercising any faith unto the words. I wasn't reading. I wasn't doing anything. Faith, the principle of action, wasn't applied at all. So I liked your point that faith and revelation are like this intertwined, important first step. And it emphasizes more that this principle is true, that revelation leads to faith, repentance, baptism, and get the Holy Ghost. Because it wasn't until I went back down off that mountain and started to exercise a little faith by opening up the scriptures and reading them and serving other people, like I started just this little seeds of faith. Then the answers came to the questions that I asked up on that mountain. But not until I had a little bit of faith. But like you said, when that Holy Ghost came, that first time that I really recognized it, man, did my faith grow. And then I wanted more. And I would apply more faith and read more scripture and pray more and serve more. And then more revelation would come. And it just rolls and rolls and rolls. That brought to mind one more quick story. Okay, I was in the MTC. And Man, I wish I could find, one of my teachers, her name was Sister Wrencher. And I wish I could find her because she is amazing, man. Changed my life. And she had this really unique look. Really, really, like we all, she's an attractive girl, so we all liked her. But she had this haircut where her bangs, like super straight hair, kind of to her shoulders a little bit, but her bangs were like almost covering her eyes and just cut straight across. So super straight. It almost reminded me of a Muppet a little bit. A little bit. A little bit. And she also had very tan skin and this just huge smile. And so I picture in my mind, I'm a designer, I'm an illustrator. So I picture in this mind, this, this, this Muppet hair with this just huge smile face. And that's it. That's all I see. Just this big smile. I've drawn the picture many times before. Anyway, Sister Wrencher, all not important. Sister Wrencher, one day we're in the MTC and she was teaching us and we were going through the Book of Mormon and we were all just kind of going through the routine and following along, participating. It was good, really good. And she gets to a point in third Nephi where Christ has come to the people and she starts reading and she's reading and reading. And then she slows down a little bit and I'm following along. I'm remembering, oh, this is such good stuff. This is very powerful. And when she got to one point, she stopped and she said, everyone close your eyes and let me read that again. She's like, seriously, everyone close your eyes. So we all, I closed my eyes. She read it again. And then she said for the first time, no one had ever done this to me before. She said for the first time, someone had said this to me in my life. She says, Do you feel that? Elder Record, do you feel that right now? When I say these words of Christ, she says, that is the Holy Ghost. And immediately I turned my thoughts inward and went, oh, that is the Holy Ghost. Like I'm recognizing it and feeling it now. And my mind, like in a movie, like flashed back over my whole life at all the different times that I had recognized the Holy Ghost. I remember being in the parking lot of Disneyland for the first time, holding the hands of my parents, walking in the park of Disneyland. I was so happy, but that was the Holy Ghost testifying of Disneyland. No, testifying that I was with my family. I remembered like 15 other events in my life and I was like, my goodness, at the time I didn't recognize that that was the Holy Ghost because Sister Wrencher just now identified it for me or helped me identify it. I now know exactly what those were. And moving forward in my life, The rest of my life, I now know how to identify it. The reason I bring that up is because as a missionary, if revelation leads to faith, repentance, baptism, and get the Holy Ghost or conversion, if you can become good at inviting, like you said, chapter 11, invite people to do the things that invite revelation. But if you can also be good at helping them identify it, that's the spirit. That's the Holy Ghost. Their faith will grow all the more because it's based in this revelation from God. powerful idea help others identify the Holy Ghost pretty cool
SPEAKER_01:and people think all the time oh wait I don't know how to like I don't know how to help people identify the Holy Ghost whatever because maybe I feel it differently or I don't feel it the you know the Lord promises that the Spirit will be with us to confirm truth right so as long as you're keeping your covenants it's promised to be with you and so in those moments where you feel that And maybe you don't feel it, but you know that you're testifying of a truth. You literally can just say, hey, this in the room right now, like the fact that you know this is true, that's the Holy Ghost confirming it to you. Like this is the Holy Ghost. When I started doing that, when I started being able to help my friends recognize what the Holy Ghost was and, you know, telling them there's more than one way to feel it and whatnot, that's when I started seeing success as
SPEAKER_00:a missionary. Fascinating. Fascinating. And sometimes the feeling of the Holy Ghost, no, not sometimes, all the time, requires faith. Right? This intertwined idea of faith and revelation is so powerful to understand. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, it's like a principle of almost everything in life. I was thinking about it. Like, I'm a 32 comparing it to a seed and to a seed growing. Like, one day if I want to be as big and strong as Sean Record, but I never go to the gym or I never... you know, do all the things that, that he does to be big and strong. Like I'm never going to get there. Like if I'm driving in the car and I get a flat tire, but I never get out of the car to fix it, I'm not going anywhere. My car's not getting fixed. I'm not getting to my destination. Like every, you can apply faith to every single aspect of life. And it just makes sense to confirm and like reconfirm and reconfirm this idea that you need to act and If you want, if you want to have strong faith, like I remember I teach this lesson all the time because some of our friends wouldn't keep their commitments or whatever. And I wouldn't say straight to their face, like, Oh, you don't have faith, but kind of along the lines of that, I'll be like, so what do you believe in?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And they, you know, kind of give me this like little answer, whatever. But then I'd be like, You do realize, and I kind of explained this principle, that faith is a principle of action and power. And they'd recognize, okay, well, my faith's not going anywhere if I'm not doing anything. And I had one friend at one point, and he was like, We can't just lay back and relax and... like wait for like our faith to grow, right? To feel this faith grow. Because you don't sit back and have your faith grow. You have to actively pursue it. You have to actively cultivate it.
SPEAKER_00:Do the things that Jesus Christ taught us will grow our faith. Serve other people, read and feast upon his words, pray constantly, be a part of the ordinances, right? These things, sing hymns, sing praises of God. There was one point on my mission where me and my companion were like, All we're doing here is helping them feel and then identify the Holy Ghost. And so if they're not keeping commitments, let's go a level deeper. We literally, with the beginning of each one, say, hey, this is going to be really awkward and embarrassing for all of us in this room, but would you mind? Did you
SPEAKER_01:sing?
SPEAKER_00:I said, would you mind if we sang you a song? I've done that before. And these Ukrainians, these ex-Soviet Ukrainians look at us like, what? You want to sing to us? And they'd be like, sure. And guess what? Every single time when we ended and I looked at them and said, how does that make you feel inside? All of them were shocked and went, actually, it feels really lovely. Like there's something nice in there. Lovely. And it wasn't my singing. It was the fact that we had just said the word Jesus Christ or, you know, we were singing hymns, right? And the Spirit always came in. And we were like, oh my goodness. We can embarrass ourselves in singing hymn, and it invites the spirit to the point where we can identify it for them or help them identify it. And that always started off the meeting so spiritually. I love it. It's so good. Okay, well, this was a good discussion. Thanks for joining us, you guys, on the podcast. Our challenge, I guess, would be this. You have to seek your own revelation, and you do that by taking action, faithful action. Start with feasting upon the words of Christ. Start with asking God the Father if he lives. Ask if Christ lives. Ask if the scriptures are true, if Joseph's a prophet, if President Nelson's a prophet. But do it with all your heart, mind, and strength. And I promise you, you will receive the Holy Ghost through revelation, and this will grow your faith. joining me.
