Mission Stories
Get insights on having a powerful and successful full-time LDS mission. This podcast shares inspiring stories and practical principles for embracing this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, overcoming challenges, and building a strong foundation for lifelong discipleship. Faith-promoting stories and lessons from real full-time LDS mission experiences to inspire and teach. Based on The Mission Prep Series by Shawn Record.
Mission Stories
The Spirit and Power Through Witnessing - Elder Thacker Jackson
In this episode, Shawn sits down with the "giddy" Thacker Jackson, who is eagerly preparing for his mission to the Georgia Atlanta North Mission, Spanish speaking, commencing in October. This conversation delves deep into the journey of mission preparation, highlighting the pivotal role of revelation leading to conversion.
◦ Consistent Gospel Study: He became an active participant in a seven-week mission prep course, attending it "eight, nine, 10 times" over four years, totaling around 70 classes. Thacker emphasizes that he felt the Spirit every time, learning new things and engaging in uplifting discussions that kept him "on fire".
◦ Impact of Mission Stories: A crucial part of his preparation involved listening to the mission stories of others, including his father's bedtime stories, the host's experiences, and those shared by ward leaders. These stories inspired him, showing him the "light," "power," and "joy" that came from serving a mission.
◦ Line Upon Line, Precept Upon Precept: Thacker highlights the principle from 2 Nephi 28:30, explaining that his spiritual growth and convictions were not a single grand event but a steady accumulation of smaller spiritual experiences. These "line upon line" moments built a strong spiritual foundation.
◦ Service and the Holy Ghost: He recalls feeling the Holy Ghost during acts of service, such as "heart attacking" (leaving paper hearts with kind messages and treats for others) and administering the sacrament to the elderly. These experiences taught him that "service is good and it makes you feel good".
• Shawn's Mission Preparation Story:
◦ Seeking Conviction: Shawn describes his initial "lukewarm" approach to the Church and his desire to move beyond passive belief to truly know if the gospel was true.
◦ The Mountain Motif: He recounts his intentional journey up a mountain, symbolizing effort, seclusion, and seeking a "higher, pure perspective". There, he prayed for answers to four specific questions: if God lives, if Jesus Christ lives, if Joseph Smith was a prophet, and if the scriptures were true.
◦ Revelation Through Desire and Action: Initially, he received "nothing" on the mountain. However, an overwhelming desire to read the scriptures "stirred" within him – an answer from God to "go learn of me". This led to months of diligent scripture study and prayer.
◦ Confirmations in Sacred Spaces: Shawn received a powerful confirmation of Jesus Christ's existence in the celestial room of the Salt Lake Temple, connecting back to his earlier mountain prayer. Later, in his mission field in Ukraine, while walking among literal "mountains" of dirt from coal mines, he received a clear revelation of God's existence.
• Thacker's Powerful Culminating Experience:
◦ Witnessing Under Pressure: Just two weeks before this podcast, while out cliff jumping at night with friends (to evade police, as it's not illegal but deemed unsafe), Thacker found himself in two spiritual discussions. First, with a drunk woman who asked if they were Christian, and later with a friend who had drifted from the church and questioned its doctrines.
◦ Bearing Testimony, Gaining Knowledge: Despite feeling unprepared to answer complex doctrinal questions, Thacker bore his simple testimony: "I know God the Father lives. I know Jesus Christ lives and was resurrected. I know Joseph Smith was a prophet and I know the Book of Mormon is true".
◦ Profound Revelation: In that very moment of declaring these truths, Thacker experienced a profound, undeniable spiritual confirmation. He states, "I know without a doubt in my mind that this is true... I believe it with all my heart". He couldn't stop smil
I was sitting in the backseat like, dude, what I just said, it was true. Like I was losing my mind. I had been praying up to that point. I'd had this question in my mind like, Holy Father, I've lived this my whole life, baptized today. Like I've done this my whole life. I think it's true. Like I think I believe it, but help me to know that I know it's true. And as I'm sitting there in the back of this seat, I was like, I know without a doubt in my mind that this is true. What I just witnessed to my friend was true. I believe it. I believe it with all my heart. And I can't describe it, dude.
SPEAKER_00:Welcome back to Mission Stories Podcast. Today's going to be a fun one because we've got a giddy dude here. He's giddy. Why are you giddy? don't know life's great but why explain why you're so happy and giddy to be here doing this or just life in general or what
SPEAKER_01:yeah life's great and i'm feeling the spirit i don't know dude
SPEAKER_00:we have thacker here thacker jackson the man i've known you for what three years three three or so years and you've gone through various and amazingly different haircuts over the years all of which are amazing what do you call your haircut style man it's like bright yellow is your hair what do you call your haircut styles over the years
SPEAKER_01:Innovative.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, innovative. All right. When you came back, you went on some summer trip and you came back and it was like...
SPEAKER_01:Oh, you liked that?
SPEAKER_00:I loved that. My mom hated it. What was that called? Chandler's Special. The fro is what it was. Was it? I mean, it was cool. All right. That's awesome. Okay. But you're giddy.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I'm stoked. Take one more chance or one more try at explaining. Why are you giddy, man? I'm... Like, why am I
SPEAKER_01:excited all the time? Why
SPEAKER_00:are you excited all the time? I mean, something's happening in a few months for you. Oh,
SPEAKER_01:okay.
SPEAKER_00:What's happening?
SPEAKER_01:I have been recently assigned to labor in the Georgia Atlanta North Mission, Spanish speaking. Oh. Could not be more excited.
SPEAKER_00:Does that play any role in you being giddy?
SPEAKER_01:little bit. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But there are a couple other things we're going to talk about today about reasons why you're giddy. I mean, I tend to be giddy all the time, like annoyingly, like excitedly, enthusiastically happy all the time. And I feel like sometimes I got to be careful, man. Like I got to pull it back or else this annoys people. But it's good to be in a room with other people who are annoyingly giddy and happy, right? It's good. It's good. Good. So today we're going to talk about probably definitely principle two, which is revelation leads to the conversion, right? Conversion for you listening out obviously, what we define it as is you as a missionary are going to go out and you have one purpose. That's to lead souls to Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior. And the way to do that, he taught, is you can only come to Christ through faith and repentance and baptism. And then you receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, which is the baptism of fire. And we proceed all of that process by saying revelation is like a necessary ingredient. And we're going to get into that today. And why that's a mission prep principle for those listening, it's because if you A, if we don't understand that concept, how can you lead others to do it? And B, if you don't understand the concept, then you're not doing it. So the idea here is this is a mission prep principle because, man, do it, right? Because we all have a journey to our missions, those of us preparing. And as we prepare, well, actually, that's what we're going to talk about today is the mission preparation journey. And we're going to talk about your stacker and we're going to talk about mine. And today I'm excited because at the end of this episode, you're going to share an experience that happened to you two weeks ago. Now, we would never stop and be like, all right, dude, you've arrived. The most important experience that you'll ever have, it's all downhill from here. Like that one thing that happened is the peak. Obviously, as you go through life, you're going to have more and more and more powerful experiences. But this one felt pretty big, didn't it?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Like this
SPEAKER_01:one felt really
SPEAKER_00:big. Like this is a big one.
SPEAKER_01:And
SPEAKER_00:so what we'll do, listeners, is bear with us because we're going to share Thacker's mission preparation story. We're going to share details of my mission preparation story. But in the end, in the end, like 40 minutes from now, Thacker's going to share an experience that he had two weeks ago when he told me, he told me about it like two days ago. I'm like, are you kidding me, man? Like, it's just pure joy. So hold tight, listeners, because that's what we're going to culminate into today. And then we'll share why it's important. Yeah, it's good. Okay, so. Thacker, you are going on a mission in October.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, sir.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Georgia.
SPEAKER_01:Georgia.
SPEAKER_00:Spanish speaking. Yeah. Okay. So when, when I'm going to ask you some questions about your mission preparation experience. So when would you say, I mean, we met each other like three, maybe three, four years ago. You're 15, 16. Yeah. Something like that. Yeah. I was about 19, 20. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And in that, at that time, Well, how would you say, I mean, you've always had good parents. You've always been a good kid. So obviously we all are doing the little things in primary, in young men's or in young women's, right? Those organizations are helping us get there. But then there's a point like we talk about in principle one, where we go from passive decision-making to active decision-making. And we have to own our decisions at some point. Would you say that journey started for you about 15, 16 years old, kind of? Yeah. Would that be accurate?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think
SPEAKER_00:it could be accurate. Because what kind of things were you doing? I'll ask you this. When did you first become aware of, for example, my mission prep course that you started taking?
SPEAKER_01:I first heard about your mission prep course. I was in the stake youth council and the leaders there were like, hey, there's this mission prep class and it's really good. Everyone tell your Everyone tell your youth that you're in your wards to go. And I was like, I'm a leader. I should probably go. It's probably my job. I guess I'll go. That's
SPEAKER_00:kind of passive.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and I showed up, and it was awesome. It was so cool. I felt the spirit every time, and I would go back every week, and I was learning new things. I was thinking of things I hadn't thought of before, and it was this awesome discussion every single time where you're just like– feel so uplifted. Like there's just something about a spiritual discussion and especially a spiritual discussion with people who are on fire and people who are hot that like, it's like no other. Like it's just... It's awesome.
SPEAKER_00:So you did, you came. I remember we met and you were with a bunch of friends and you're friends with my son and we're doing this. And I immediately remember you guys just being engaged and just being into it. Now it's a seven week course. And so you guys went through the seven week course and I was like, that was awesome. These kids are listening. They're applying this stuff. They're young, 15, 16. I'm like, oh, that's good. They went through the course once. Hopefully they'll remember those things. You and your friends have remembered them partially because Over the next four years, how many times did you come back to the course, the seven-week course?
SPEAKER_01:About 10.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, like 8, 9, 10 times? Like 10 times? That's 70 times, 70 classes you sat through for mission prep. Why? Why did you do that?
SPEAKER_01:I can feel the Spirit every time, and it's just, you're learning about the gospel, and... It's just more Jesus. Everyone
SPEAKER_00:loves more Jesus. I mean, I can definitely say that even though these lessons are every seven weeks repeated, we did try and change them up a little bit. And I felt that pressure every time you guys came because I was like, holy cow, they're back and they've gone through this again. But I do love that I could see in your heart and in the other kids' hearts, you guys were there to learn. You guys were there to engage and participate. And so we all did collectively learn more as we went. Okay, so this was a part of the role of your mission prep, right? Going to this series?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_00:And now at the same time that you were in this State Youth Council, you had gotten your patriarchal blessing, you told me. Yeah. Okay, tell me about that. Because this has to have a role in your mission preparation journey.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, totally. I received my patriarchal blessing. And I remember, like, everyone, I think everyone's patriarchal blessing is awesome, right, to them? Like, it's personal scripture. Like, what's cooler than that?
SPEAKER_00:If you believe in it. Yeah, if
SPEAKER_01:you believe in it and if you're faithful to it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:It's personal scripture. What's cooler than that? And I remember when I first got it back, he handed me the paper copy, and I'm reading it at home, and I reread it a couple times. And there were, like, a few things that kept jumping out me and they all pertain to a mission and I was like oh alright I guess I'm called like I don't have my call yet I haven't received my letter from the first presidency but I have my call I've like I've been called to serve and I was like alright
SPEAKER_00:I'm going that was it I love that perspective I've never heard it told that way you read it in your patriarchal blessing you believed in your patriarchal blessing that it was revelation from God for you enough to where you read the words you're going to serve a mission and you're going to learn a language you're going to do all these things and you concluded holy cow, God has chosen me. He called me already. I don't know where it's going to be. I'll find out in like three or five years. But you felt called at that point. That's awesome. Okay, so at that point, you obviously were like, all right, well, I'm on a path then. I'm on a path to get ready for that. Okay, so what are some of the other things you've done? Because you've attended Mission Prep Series 70 times. That's incredible. You believed in your patriarchal blessing. Yeah. Okay. What other things have you done for your mission preparation journey? Or what principles and ideas have helped you along the way? Because I'd say you are absolutely ready to go. I'd say you are very, very prepared. Thank you. Which is awesome.
SPEAKER_01:Some things that help me prepare. Something that I feel like helped me make that decision to go on the mission of not just like as a decision is called, but like to get excited about it is seeing other people that I've looked up to. Like looking up to you. looking up to the leaders in my ward, looking up to my dad, who's just these awesome people. And I'd hear these stories. I'd hear them like my dad telling bedtime stories about his mission. You telling your stories from your little wave an arm thing that you've got going on there. Youth leaders telling stories like in class. And I would just hear them and I was like, this is awesome. Like I want this. Like I can see the light that was emanating from them and I could see the power and effect it had on their lives. And I could see like the joy they had with like just everything. And I was like, that's what I want i want to be just like that
SPEAKER_00:you know how the scriptures talk about like when people are born again like it's nephi or it's alma and they have the mighty change of heart and they just go i just i just want to be an angel flying through the air and just like a trumpet proclaiming it to everyone and i want to be on the top of a mountain just proclaiming repentance and faith because of the joy i feel having been saved by the savior that is for those of us who have had these life-changing amazing mission experiences that's what it is for us we do want to just sound the trump and just proclaim it to everyone be like thacker just get ready be prepared and serve with your heart my mind and strength it is pure joy you're gonna love it like i just heard one of the early episodes on the podcast was from uh uh this guy uh what's his name oh dang
SPEAKER_01:carter
SPEAKER_00:carter carter carter uh burrup yeah and every week i hear his his i read his emails he is on fire Because in his preparation process, he came to faith, which led him to repentance, which made him realize that those covenants that he made through baptism lead him to receiving this gift of the Holy Ghost. And he is on the rooftops proclaiming this, and he has pure joy, and it is just so cool. They're having so much success. It's incredible. You guys are part of the generation. We heard from one of the apostles a couple months ago that we are in an era where there are more convert baptisms than there's ever been in any 12-month period. You're in that group. Carter's in that group. And part of it is because of this excitement. So, okay, so I might bring all that up because you're saying you are grown up in a house with your dad. And your dad, this good man who's willing to share on the rooftops with his kids these stories about his mission. And you listen and go, I want that. That sounds amazing. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, definitely to pause here, for those of you who are listening who are parents, right? And your concern as parents is you want your kids or your ward kids, you want them to have these amazing experiences. Share your stories. Man, how important have these stories been for you? So
SPEAKER_01:much. It may not look like they're paying attention. Sometimes they might be a little bored, but I can promise you that they'll remember it and they'll love it. And I felt the spirit every time someone would talk about it. And it was just so like... It was just so inspiring.
SPEAKER_00:There you go. There you go. So parents, please share your stories with your kids. Or if you don't have those stories, go find people who do love sharing them with passion and with spirit and bring in the principles of the gospel in those stories. Go find those and get your kids to listen to them. That's what this is about for us. Mission Stories. Mission stories so that you feel the inspiration, you feel the Holy Ghost in those stories. So, okay. So part of your mission preparation journey was you were kind enough and humble enough and good enough to listen to your dad and to listen to my stories and to come to my class 70 times and to go to your, be active in your ward where you can hear people sharing their stories. So good for you for being humble and listening and good for your leaders for sharing. Like awesome, awesome, awesome. Okay, what else? What else? You talked a little bit. There's a scripture you wanted to share in 2 Nephi.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:This applies too, right, to your mission journey, your mission preparation journey.
SPEAKER_01:2 Nephi 28 verse 30. I love this one so much. For behold, thus saith the Lord God, I will give unto the children of men line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so what you're saying here, I'll guess the interpretation before you teach us.
UNKNOWN:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:What are you saying? Your, your convictions, conversions, change of heart, feeling the spirit, getting revelation. It didn't all happen at once. You didn't just like wake up one day and go, you know what? I've been called to go on a mission. All right. Give it to me, Lord. Give me all the answers. Give me all the light. Give me all the, the, the spirit you're saying for you line upon line. What does that mean to you?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Um, the story I'm about to share or the story you want me to share in a little bit. Um, it didn't, It didn't just come to pass by one day just waking up and having this grand experience. I had little spiritual experiences the whole time, and I feel like that's what most people have. You read your scriptures in the morning, and you're like, hey, this feels nice. This feels good. I like this. Or I'd come to your class, and I'm like, this is right. This is good. I like this. But it doesn't have to be a grand experience every time, but it's just one on the other, like one foot in front of the other, and you're building upon it, and it's building this foundation of... spiritual experiences
SPEAKER_00:and so when you after you've had this what we'll talk about at the end of this episode this big experience you look back at your life and you can see many i don't know even if the word is smaller but just many other like like little experiences that line up online yeah right they grow they grew as you went and you learned as you got repetitive experiences So this is the line up on line. What are some of the things that you remember? When do you remember feeling the Holy Ghost or learning something that hit you to your soul? You don't have to give specific examples. For me, the first memory I have of feeling the Holy Ghost, I remember feeling it at my baptism. I remember feeling it at Disneyland. I'll never forget, dude. We walked out of the car, like my whole family, and we're walking through the parking lot to Disneyland and there's just excitement. Now what I love about this of this story is it's easy to be like, you weren't feeling the spirit, dude. You're just feeling emotions. You're just excited. But now I'm old and I know I can discern what is Holy Ghost and what is not. And I remember in that parking lot vividly feeling the Holy Ghost. Now, was it because we were at Disneyland? That's what I thought for a long time. That is not the case. The most vivid memory I have is we were walking out in the parking lot and I looked to the left and And my mom and dad were there. And I looked to the right, my brothers and my sister were there. And we were together doing this fun and exciting thing. That is what I felt the spirit over. It wasn't Disneyland. It was that. And so these little experiences later on when I really learned to discern the Holy Ghost, I had these little teeny little line upon liners that grew my understanding. Yeah. So what else, what kind of experiences can you remember? Like at what times did you feel the Holy ghost? You said one, you would hear your dad or a leader share a mission experience and you'd be like, I want that. You didn't want that. Cause cognitively you're like, that sounds cool. You felt something, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So what else?
SPEAKER_01:Totally. Um, I, I remember my mom would, um, used to heart attack people. We still do, but not as much. Um,
SPEAKER_00:What is heart attacking? Heart
SPEAKER_01:attacking is awesome. What is that? For people out there, it's a great way to do service. You find someone in the ward who could just use a little love and you cut out hearts out of paper. We do it like this. We cut out hearts out of paper. We write nice messages and sometimes we bake brownies and we just go put them all over the door. And I just remember like feeling good. I was just feeling cool. Like this is, I like this. Like this is nice. I'd like to keep doing
SPEAKER_00:this. Who initiated that? Your parents did?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah,
SPEAKER_00:my mom. I love this. I keep hearing, I don't know your parents very well, but I keep hearing stories like this and I'm like, They did it right, man. They know they're doing. So what about that do you think, what about that caused your father in heaven to go, I got to send communication to Thacker, my son, to his heart right now? What do you think he was sending to you? Why? Why during those kinds of things? What was he teaching you at those times?
SPEAKER_01:I think he was telling me that what I was doing was right, and service is good, and it makes you feel good. Man,
SPEAKER_00:you listeners out there, here's the crazy thing. If you just, like Thacker just said, one day I remember being in Provo after the mission, and me and my mission buddies were like, you know what, guys? Let's just forget ourselves today. Let's just go out and find something to do, someone to serve. And so we just walked outside, walked up the street, found a house whose yard was kind of messy, knocked on the door. There was an old lady. Hey, we would like to serve you today. Guess what we felt that whole day? We felt so peace, so much peace, so much joy. The Holy Ghost was present in our heart that whole day. Yeah, service. Go serve. I love it. Okay, so
SPEAKER_01:good. My favorite thing about being a priest is taking the sacrament to the elderly and to the shut-ins. At first, I was kind of a prideful and kind of a punk kid. Oh, man, I could be napping. I could be eating cereal right now at home. And then eventually, I kind of grew into it. I started seeing how much it meant to these people. I started feeling how much it... like affected them. And I was like, wait, this is kind of cool. Like, I love this. And I love talking to those elderly ladies and they were so sweet. And it was, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But little, little by little line up online, pretty certain ways you started feeling the Holy ghost and all of these things. And that was helping you in your preparation because it was leading you towards something that happened a couple of weeks ago that we'll talk about. Okay. Okay, good. Any other thoughts that you want to share about your mission preparation journey? You've been proactive. You've also been reactive to, To good parents and good leaders doing good things, but you chose to react to those things in good ways. You chose to accept the Spirit and the service and all those things. Yeah. So anything else you want to share about your mission prep journey before I start sharing mine, and then we get to ultimately where your journey has culminated to?
SPEAKER_01:No, I want to hear yours. I want to hear this. You're good. I want to hear this.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, well then, so... You know, I think I was like you, just a little more lukewarm. Because you seem, on the lukewarm, hot and cold spectrum, you seem pretty hot. And you seem like you have been most of your life, which is so impressive and so amazing. I was that way, but I was a little more in the middle, a little more lukewarm. Like, I never did anything really crazy, crazy, crazy, crazy bad growing up.
SPEAKER_01:No criminal record.
SPEAKER_00:Maybe. I don't consider that bad, though. Like, come on, man. Like,
SPEAKER_01:no.
SPEAKER_00:No criminal record. But... I definitely wasn't doing anything like super, super, super good. Like you were definitely serving more than I was. You were paying attention more to your leaders than I was. I was just kind of lukewarm and like loved the world, right? So I remember it got to the point where I was sometimes happy and sometimes not happy because that's what happens when you're lukewarm. If we want true happiness, we have to consciously choose to follow the Lord and do the principles and to read the scriptures and to pray. And because I wasn't doing that, sometimes I would kind of be around family or do things that would be happiness, and other times I'd be really sad and miserable. That's what lukewarm does, right? So I remember going, okay, I guess I'm going to serve a mission I'm expected to, right? But then I got bothered by that kind of passive decision-making. I'm like, why would I just do it just because? And I made a decision one day. I'm like, okay, how about this? I said, my life is pretty dang good right now. I got a good girlfriend. I'm in a punk band. And we had just done a show, me and my brother in this punk band. And we had just done this show where they were like, I'm guessing, I'd have to ask my brother, but I'm guessing 80, 90 people showed up. Which was big, man. For us, that was big. Like a house
SPEAKER_01:show?
SPEAKER_00:That was a house show. We rented out a big old cabin and there was like 80, 90 people there. And we were like, this is awesome. You were the next
SPEAKER_01:Nirvana.
SPEAKER_00:We thought we were. We thought we were. We hoped we were. We were not. But I'd just done that show. I had this girlfriend. I had a job. I had a little bit of money. My family was awesome. I had like everything good. I had a car, all that stuff. And in that case of like what the scriptures call carnal security, I'm like, yeah, I don't know, man. Life's good. And so should I go? Should I not go? And I remember sitting down and going one day, you know what? How about this? If I'm going to go, I'm not going to do it fakey. I'm not going to do it like just because. If I'm going to go, I'm going to do it right now. and I'll be the best missionary ever. But I don't really wanna do that unless I truly, truly know that the things that I'm gonna preach are absolutely true. All this stuff that I've learned my whole life, I've kind of received it passively, accepted it passively. I need to know for myself. Like Nephi says, I desire to know for myself. And my soul started to hunger. Okay, so there's this theme throughout scripture and in my kind of process, my mission prep process, it revolves around mountains. Let's talk about mountains for a minute, okay? Cool. So there are story after story in the scriptures about mountains. I kind of made a list of a bunch. So like Moses on Mount Sinai. Actually, let's go back even further. Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. Although it possibly wasn't geographically a mountain, but it's considered kind of this exclusive kind of its own space, its own zone, wilderness-y kind of thing with this tree at the peak in the center. It's kind of a mountain. Then you take Moses on Mount Sinai. He ascends to Mount Sinai where he sees God face to face. This bush, he describes it as a burning bush. I don't think there was a bush, and I don't think there was any fire. I think those are his inadequate words trying to explain the spirit of God burned within me as I communed with him. Okay, now remember that, Thacker, because in a few minutes as we talk about your story, I'm going to ask you to describe your story and what you experienced and felt. Moses is trying to experience his communing with God, with Jehovah, He calls it face-to-face. I believe he maybe saw something. But the true thing that converted him was what he was experiencing in his heart up on this mountaintop. So we'll get back to that. Elijah. Elijah was a prophet, one of my favorite prophets. And he was fleeing from Jezebel, and he travels to Mount Horeb, I think that's what it's called, which is Sinai. It's the same mountain. And on top, I'll just read it real quick because this is awesome. At top, he says... And he says, Go forth and stand upon the mount before the Lord, said the Lord to Elijah. And behold, the Lord passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and break in pieces the rocks before the Lord. But the Lord was not in the wind, and after the wind an earthquake. But the Lord was not in the earthquake, and after the earthquake a fire. But the Lord was not in the fire, and after the fire a still small voice, which is described as the Holy Ghost. Those big things on that mountaintop didn't matter, these physical things, but then he felt the Holy Ghost. There's still a small voice, and that's what pierces him to the soul. Anyway, I'm digressing. Okay, they got Abraham on Mount Moriah where he has his... His moment where he learned about the Savior, Jesus Christ, I think more than anything, I'm assuming, which is when he had to sacrifice his son and then the Lord intervened and stopped it and his faith thing there, right? So he's up on the mountain. There's story after story. When Jesus Christ was on the earth, he was transfigured up on the top of a mountain. He took Peter, James, and John in the high mountain and was transfigured and Moses and Elijah came to him. And the father's voice said, here's my beloved son, just like he said to Joseph. Okay, Jesus prayed on the mountains over and over again, like in Luke 6 and in Matthew, I think it's like 16, 14, 15. He often went into the mountains and prayed by himself exclusively. So I'll stop here because all throughout the Book of Mormon, there's mountains. There's Nephi. He went up on the mountain. Enos went into the wilderness, kind of like on a mountain. So before I tell you this theme of mountains, what do you think, Thacker? Why? What do mountains have to do? By the way, the Temple of the Lord is called the Mountain of the Lord. Oh,
SPEAKER_01:yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So what do you think? Why is... Why are mountains frequently used, before I tell you my story, why are they frequently used as places of communion with God? Or is it symbolic? Is it practical? It's like, oh, it's geographically higher. Or is it closer to God? Like, what do you think? Just interested in your thoughts. Just shooting off
SPEAKER_01:the hip? Yeah. I think they're hard to get to. You've got to put in work to get there. You cannot just do like a jaunt. up a mountain. I've done a few hikes myself, and they're not easy. So to get up a mountain, you've got to put some effort in.
SPEAKER_00:Look at the wisdom, dude. So you're saying that if I seek out God, there needs to be intention and effort and diligent work to get there. Yeah. Ooh, dude, that was deep, man. That was deep. And I think some of the other symbolisms are like, I mean, okay, there's the geography thing. We are drawing near to heaven as we ascend, right?
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:There's leaving behind the noise and the corruption of this world, okay? There's secluding yourself, which is what Joseph did, right? He didn't necessarily go on a mountain, but when he went in that grove of trees, he was leaving the noise and the temptations, the pulling in every direction of the world to go someplace quiet, right? There's the seeking a higher, pure perspective. That's mountains. Any other thoughts on the mountains? Yours was great, man. That was awesome.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I think there's something so special about nature. Like whenever I'm like, whenever I'm on a mountain or whenever I've got like a pretty view, like I feel the spirit.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. So there's a nature element to it. But I think the culmination of all of those things, right? It took you effort to get there. I love that visual dude. Cause you, well, I'll share mine. Okay. So I lived in the mountains of North Utah at the time. My parents had moved me from Denver where I grew up to my senior year in Ogden. That was an angsty time because my senior year, I didn't know anyone, but they lived on this beautiful mountain. And so at this time when I was like, okay, I'm lukewarm. Look, if I'm going to go, I need to find out. I need to get hot or cold. I'm either out and I'm going to be a punk hero forever and I'll get married to this girl and I'll be a rock star or I'm going to stop all that and I'm going to go and leave all that and go on my mission. I need to be hot or cold. I was sick of being lukewarm, right? So the first decision I made was, and I don't know, maybe this was the like creative in me, but I was like, I need to find myself a mountain. I need to go seclude myself. I need to leave, and I need to be intentional in my effort to go seek God. So there's this mountain behind the house. I'm like, all right, I'm going to hike up top, and I'm going to do this. I'm going to go up there to seek God, and I'm going to make a deal with him. I'm going to ask him four questions. And if he answers me at the top of that mountain, not only will I go on a mission, but I will be the greatest missionary that ever lived. So I started hiking, Thacker, just step by step. And I remember thinking at the time what you had just said. Well, it's kind of hard. Like, I don't know why I picked such a steep slope. Why am I going up this mountain? I could have just gone to my bedroom. But that made me think, okay, well, no, keep going. Like, be intentional. Like, seek God and go up. So I'm glad you said that. That was amazing. But as I got up to the top of the mountain, I wanted to ask, I wanted four things. I wanted to know, I was going to ask God, God, do you live? Reveal yourself to me. I want to know that you exist. Like, I believe it, but I want to know. The scriptures say you can know. Two, I want to know that Jesus Christ exists. Reveal him to me too. Joseph had it. I want it. Number three, I want to know that Joseph Smith was a prophet because it all kind of boils down to that. If he was, it all makes sense after. If he wasn't, no. And then I wanted to know not only if the Book of Mormon is true, but if the Bible is true. I wanted to know if those scriptures were trustworthy, if they were from God or if they were just something man had created. So Thacker, I went up. I went up because I wanted to know. And I get up at the top of that mountain and For the first time, I prayed vocally like Joseph did, and I asked God. I said, I'll be the best missionary. I'll go, but only if you tell me these things. And so I asked specifically those four things. Doctor, guess what happened? You know how clouds sometimes gather, and then when they open up because light is coming through, and then angels with wings? No, nothing like that. I was shocked, dude, because guess what happened? Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. I got no answer. I got no thoughts. I didn't even get feelings. No spirit that I felt at Disneyland. No spirit that I felt at home. Nothing. So I was like, I'm just not praying long enough. Let me pray longer. And guess what came? Nothing. Nothing. So out of like complete, like, wow, you know what? I'm kind of really shocked and disappointed because I kind of like expected that this would happen. I was going to see God face to face at this moment. So I stood up and I confused and sad. started walking down that hill. And as I walked down the hill, I questioned, like, what gives? Like, I'm doing what I'm supposed to do. And because the answer wasn't coming, I was very, very confused. And then something really important happened. Something started to stir. I like the word stir in my heart. I think back and something started to stir. Like, I felt something happening in my soul. And this overwhelming desire started to swell up in me. To do what and thing? Take a guess. I know this has picked my brain. That's not fair to ask you. What do you think God would want me to do? I wasn't doing anything. Remember I told you that. I was lukewarm. Take a guess. What do you think God would want me to do and tell me to do? I know you have to pick my brain here. I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_01:I'm going to go with read your scriptures.
SPEAKER_00:Dude, I, for the first time in my life, had this overwhelming desire swelling up in my heart to get back to that house and open up the very books that I just asked God to tell me were true. I'd never read them really, yet I'm up there asking God, tell me these are true. Like literally, why didn't God just say, well, tell me what's in it first and then I'll tell you if it's true or not. And I would have been like, I don't know. So you're right, dude. Good guess. So going down that mountain, this swelling, obviously, which I didn't recognize at the time, but obviously that was the Holy Ghost. God wasn't going to just give me this answer that I didn't really work for or earn or have enough faith to receive. But in his loving kindness, he did put into my heart this. He answered my desires, at least my request. And he says, go, go learn of me. So Thacker, what are you laughing at? That's the coolest story I've ever heard. But, oh, well, wait, you got to hear what happened. Maybe I rejected it, dude. Maybe I didn't follow through. But I did. I did. All right. I did. I went back down to my house and I opened up the scriptures, like, intently for the first time. And I even knelt down and prayed. Like, help me understand this stuff. Like, I do kind of want to learn, right? And so I read for, like, 30 minutes. And I closed the book and I said another prayer. And I was like, that was different. I'd never done it that way before. And I felt this swelling continue to grow. And so, like, a few hours later, I was like, I'm doing that again. So I did it again, but I read for like an hour that time. The next day, I read for like two hours. The next day, two hours. I'm reading and I'm praying and I'm reading and I'm praying. And Thacker, the beginning of my journey starts on that mountain where I asked the question and got no answers, but God gave me really the answer that I needed, which was a desire to Or at least to build on the desire that I had. Remember when Nephi says, even if you have just a bit of a, even if you don't believe, but you have just a desire to believe, plant that seed. And what do you do with that seed? How will it grow? You got to feed it. You got to water it. Yeah. And how do you feed and water that seed of faith? It's your scriptures. It's scriptures, dude. You got it. Prayer and scripture, prayer and scripture. So over the next few months, I started reading and praying and reading and praying. Now, at the time, my best friend was Trent Stock. Trent, shout out, man. This dude's awesome. My favorite dude on the planet, besides my wife and my kids and you, Thacker. Thank you. Sorry. I appreciate it. So Trent Stock in high school in Denver, he was a year older than me. This dude was a punk, and he won't be mad at me telling this, but punk, like did nothing good. That's not true. He was a great kid, but did a lot of bad things. So he graduates, and we kind of lose touch. And I'm at home, and then I graduate, and I'm doing through this process of mine. And he calls me out of the blue and he's like, Sean, get up here to Denver, live with me and let's prepare for our missions. I'm like, dude, you're not going on a mission. What are you talking about? He's like, I'm not kidding, dude. I'm going on a mission. You're not, dude. You've never even like been strong in the church. What are you talking about? He's like, Sean, I've been repenting for a year and I just got permission from the general authorities to go on a mission. I'm like, what? So sure enough, I'm like, yeah, dude, I'll come out. So I went out there and every day for months, we would just wake up early, go work at the golf course, but we'd wake up and I walked upstairs and Trent was there with his Book of Mormon and he's reading at 5 a.m. We'd get home and he'd open up his book and he'd read. So he was doing the things that I'm like being inspired to do. So together we start doing these things. Thacker, Spirit, spirit the whole time, just power when you're reading and feasting upon the words of Christ and the spirit is there. Okay, so fast forward. We're all in, both of us. He gets his call and he leaves on his mission. I put my papers in. I'm going on my mission. Like I'm just stoked. And it's not because I got those four answers. I didn't get any of those answers, but I just have this burning in my spirit of just like go, go, go. I love the scriptures. I'm feeling the spirit all the time. Okay, now I get my call. Ukraine Donetsk. Awesome. Where it's time for me to go get my endowments out. So I go get my endowments out in the temple. Amazing spiritual experience. Just beautiful. Well, we have this tradition where my grandparents, they had worked, they served in the Salt Lake Temple at the time. So we scheduled the time where I could go through with them. So we go there. Have you ever been there? Not the Salt Lake. You're going to love it when you go, when it's done. So there's this tradition where my grandma, we would go through the whole session and we'd go up into the celestial room. And my grandma would always sit us down and she would tell this story. You ready for this story?
SPEAKER_01:Let's go.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. So keep in mind this mountain theme, because where are we?
SPEAKER_01:Mountain of the Lord.
SPEAKER_00:Mountain of the Lord, right? We are in the mountain of the Lord. My journey starts on that mountain in like Ogden area. And now I'm in the mountain of Lord in Salt Lake. So here's the story. My grandma would be in the social room and we sit down. She takes us to the seat and she says, look behind us. And there's this door. She says, that Sean is the Holy of Holies. That is where the prophet goes. Like, oh, that's cool. That's really cool. She says, well, there's this story where I think it was Wolford Woodruff and something was happening at the time where the prophet was sick and he was next in line to become the prophet. And so he just, he knew he'd be next. He didn't want it. So apparently he got permission to go up into this Holy of Holies and to pray to the Lord and to seek his guidance. And really his message to the Lord is I'm not ready for this. I can't do this. I can't. And after pleading and praying, my grandma says for a long time, he didn't get any visitations, any messages, any nothing. So just like me, he stood up, confused, walked down those stairs, came into the celestial room, and now my grandma stops me and put her hand on my shoulder. And she points down the hall to the left. She says, see that hallway? She says, according to Wilford Woodruff, maybe it was Lorenzo Snow, I don't remember which one. According to the prophet, walking towards him was the Savior Jesus Christ. Like there, standing there and walking towards him. And my grandma told me that story. You know what my first reaction was? No. There's no way. There's no way. Like the Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, stood five feet from me. God himself stood five feet from me. There's no way. But you know what scriptures had taught me all those months? That if I have questions or doubts, what do you do with it?
SPEAKER_01:Open your scriptures.
SPEAKER_00:Well, you open your scriptures. And what did the scriptures teach Joseph when he had questions and doubt?
SPEAKER_01:Ask the Lord.
SPEAKER_00:Ask. So I said, hey, Grandma, that's an amazing story. And in my mind, I was like, I don't think I believe that. But I learned in the scriptures that I can know for myself. So I... got away from my grandma, went over to the corner, sat down in a chair, and I had a very sincere prayer. I says, God, is that true? Did literally Jesus Christ stand 20 feet from me in this very temple? And my mind flashed back to what, six months, a year earlier when I was on that mountaintop. And I asked God the very question, reveal yourself to me, but reveal Jesus Christ to me. I want to know that he lives. And I remembered that Question that I asked God, and sitting in that chair when I asked, did the prophets see and stand with Jesus Christ here? At that moment, Thacker, I felt arms around my whole body. I felt the peace and the joy and the fire in my heart, and I know they were Jesus Christ's. I got an answer. Jesus Christ lives, he knows me, and he surrounds me with his love that forgives me. And I, in that moment, received an answer to my prayer that I asked months earlier. Okay, so fast forward now. I'm in the MTC, glorious time. I get into the mission field, glorious time. I'm six months in my mission, working like crazy, Thacker, talking to everyone, having just joy, success, building the kingdom of God on earth amongst the Ukrainian people, just the most greatest experience. And one day we were teaching a guy named Bogdan, this cool like hippie communist. And this dude was awesome. And he was keeping his commitments and we were feeling the spirit. I was just on fire and he was on fire. Now in that city of Mikheyevka, That's a coal mining city. Everyone's a coal miner. And back when the communists built the coal mines, they'd dig underground miles and miles. Well, they didn't know what to do with all that dirt. So you know what they did? They just put them in piles. And so you'd walk around and they're called terakani. I don't know why they're called, that's Russian for cockroach. I don't know why they call them cockroaches. But there are certain areas in the city where you just have these giant mountains and you could just walk through these hills and these giant mountains. Okay, theme, you picking up the theme? All right. Okay. So I finished this meeting with Bogdan and I'm walking home along these train tracks through these Terakani, these big mountains. And I'm telling you, Thacker, I just was so fulfilled with joy. Like I just kind of realized at that moment, no, what am I doing here? This is the most amazing thing. Like I feel the spirit every day. I'm teaching the work of the Lord. I'm helping people come to Christ. I just feel so much joy. And I remember Thacker walking home looking in the sky and just said to my father in heaven, thank you so much. Like, I'm so happy. And in that moment, Thacker, my brain went back a year and a half earlier, a year earlier when I was on that mountain and I had asked God the question, reveal yourself to me. And in that moment, I heard with not my physical ears, but I heard him say my name and the spirit burned within my heart. And in that moment, Thacker, I knew God lived. I knew it. He revealed himself to me because I had asked, right? Okay, so I won't go into the other two answers that I did get, but this mountain theme where I'm seeking the Lord, putting in the effort, and going to these mountains and receiving these answers to my prayers, these revelations, these come after much labor. It is line upon line. It is precept upon precept, right? They are. It always is. But when we ask specific questions and when we seek God, he promises that he will change our hearts and he will send us the Holy Ghost. Okay, now let's round back to your story,
SPEAKER_02:huh?
SPEAKER_00:Let's round back to your story because a couple weeks ago, you were like, dude, I got to share this story with you. Something happened. Finally, something happened. I'm like, all right, sweet, dude, tell me the story. And then we missed each other and couldn't connect and then didn't connect again. And then three days ago, we were in mission prep for your like 10th round, right? Yeah. And you came up and you're like, dude, I got to tell you my story. I'm like, oh, you're good, of course. Tell me your story. And I'm expecting something like, I don't know, Thacker. My buddy picked up the Book of Mormon. I was like, dude, that's a good book. I'm like, oh, cool story. I didn't know what to expect, Thacker. I didn't know what to expect. Then you dropped on me this story. Okay, go into it. What happened?
SPEAKER_01:The long version from the very start? Sure. Okay. So there is a spot around where I live where we can go cliff jumping, and it is awesome. The local police, however, disprove of it. And so if you go during the day. It's not illegal. It's not illegal. They just think it's unsafe. They just think it's unsafe.
SPEAKER_00:Got to preface your spiritual story by you weren't breaking the law.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, we weren't breaking the law. But if you go during the day, they will politely ask you to leave. So we have made it a habit of going at nighttime.
SPEAKER_00:To evade the police. Got it. Good start. Good start to the story,
SPEAKER_01:man. Yeah. It's kind of a hike to get there, and we were walking there. It was me and three buddies. We were walking down, and we met these ladies in the golf cart, and they– They were so drunk. It was hilarious. But they were– can we come watch? Yeah, sure. And so they're driving with us, and they're just talking to us, and we're talking back. And eventually one of them goes, are you guys Christian? My buddy's like, he's Mormon. He points at me. I was like, oh, thank you for pointing that out. I thought that was hilarious. And I was like, yeah, I'm LDS. I just got called to Georgia, and she was like, oh, my gosh. And she started asking all these questions. I was like kind of able to have this cool conversation. I was able to answer a few of her questions. Um, but I just, I didn't do everything. I like, I didn't answer her questions the way that I fully wanted to, or I don't think like I answered them properly or I don't think I like brought the spirit in. Like I just, I don't know. It just kind of bugged me. And so we did, we did our jump, we had our fun and then we're walking back. Um, and one of, one of the buddies that was with us has kind of drifted away from the church for his own reasons. And so, um, We kind of got on this spiritual discussion, and we were talking about it, and... Yeah, we were talking about the church, and he was just bringing up some points that he was like, you know, I liked the church, but I just had problems with X, Y, and Z. And he would come up with these problems, and I would kind of ask him about them, but I'm no bishop. I'm 18. Like, I'm stoked for the church, but I know nothing. This is church history stuff. Yeah, church history stuff, like doctoral stuff, and I'm trying to answer them the best I can. I'm no bishop. I'm no Sean Record. Yeah. And so I'm trying my best. And then we get in the car, and he brings up a few more things. I remember we got in the car, and I said a prayer. I was like, Heavenly Father, help me to just stay strong and just to not let this shake me, to let this conversation affect me. I could see where it was going, that he was kind of dogging on the church at this
SPEAKER_00:point. Yeah, it's painful, right? Yeah. Especially at this point. You're preparing for a mission. You're excited about it. And now he's asking all these questions that— You know, necessarily you've never dived into before. And so it's like, I
SPEAKER_01:don't, I don't need a faith crisis. Right. Um, and so you're driving and he's talking and he's talking and eventually I just go, listen, dude, I, I don't know. I don't, I don't know the answers to your questions. I'm flat out. I got no clue, but I do know this. I know God, the father lives. I know, um, jesus christ lives and was resurrected i know joseph smith was a prophet and i know the book of mormon is true and he was like yeah and and he kept driving and i i just remember like he kept talking i don't even know what he was saying at this point i was sitting in the back seat like dude what i just said it was true like i was losing my mind i had been praying up to that point i'd had this question in my mind like heavenly father I've lived this my whole life, baptized a date. I've done this my whole life. I think it's true. I think I believe it, but help me to know that I know it's true. And as I'm sitting there in the back of this seat, I was like, I know without a doubt in my mind that this is true. What I just witnessed to my friend was true. I believe it. I believe it with all my heart. And I... I can't describe it, dude.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so in the process of you witnessing or sharing your testimony about these things that you believe in, you said in that moment, something happened in your heart. What was happening? What were you experiencing? What were you feeling as you were proclaiming these truths? And when you stopped proclaiming them and turned inward, what did you feel? It just like, it just
SPEAKER_01:worked. It's like the
SPEAKER_00:best. So do your best to express to the listeners what worked. What did you feel? What was the experience? Did you feel like, what was it that you, like, was it an emotion? Did you want to cry? Did you feel angry? Did you feel happy? Was it an emotion at all? Or was it something not an emotion? Was it something that was perhaps what you were learning line up online all those years and experiencing all those years, yet it was culminating to something more powerful and more direct and more, a more clear revelation. Like we'll explain how people know. And this is where I brought in a few, like 20 minutes ago, I said, we told the story of Moses and how he went up on that mountain on Mount Sinai, saw God face to face. And then he says, basically explains like there was a bush and it was burning. I kind of think though, whether there was a burning bush or not, those were the ways that he was like, okay, just like you were like, I don't know. It just worked. I'm just up here. So there's something happening in my soul where I just know that this is God. I know that this is God. And the words he used, used which were kind of weak where i don't know it's like burning like fire all around like a bush is on fire i don't i personally don't think there's a burning bush i think he was trying to express what he was experiencing in his heart as god revealed himself to him which was the power of the holy ghost yeah and the best words he had was uh a burning bush like there's burning going on that reminds me of the story in luke uh of the two disciples on the road to emmaus These two disciples are walking after the death of Christ. And then he was resurrected and they're like, we didn't see him resurrected. And so they're walking and they're sad and they're upset. Like he was our savior. Now he's dead. He's gone. And then they said, he's gone. They took his body. So like, we don't, what do we think? And then little by little, slowly, this other man started walking with him who happened to be the savior, but their eyes were closed. They didn't know it was the savior. And the savior says, why are you walking? Why are you sad? What are you two discussing? That makes you so sad. Oh, don't, where have you been? Are you a stranger? There's this man and he was supposed to be our savior. Now he's dead and gone. And then Jesus Christ on this walk starts quoting from the very beginning every single prophet who has ever testified of the Savior. And he's sharing these. And by the time they end, these guys are like, holy cow. But it's getting dark. And they says, hey, we're at the city. Come with us. It's eventide. Come to dinner with us. So he did. They perform the sacrament, Christ does, and then he disappears. And as he disappears, their eyes were opened. And then the words that they said were this. Did not our hearts burn within us as he walked to us upon the path? and share with us the scriptures. Burn within you, like what do you mean? So again, these inadequate ways of expressing what they were feeling in their hearts. Then we talked about Elijah up on the mountain and there was fire and there was wind and there were earthquakes, but the Lord wasn't in those. What was the Lord in? He's in
SPEAKER_01:the still small
SPEAKER_00:voice. The still small voice. Now that's also an inadequate way to express what he was feeling, but the way Elijah decided to express it was, he was trying to compare it to these big mighty things The earthquake, the fire, the wind. And he's trying to say it was more powerful than those things. But it was still and small and sweet. There's this powerful joy I felt in my spirit. So Thacker, it's your turn. Try your best. What words do you use? They will always be inadequate, right? Because you had a spiritual revelation from the almighty God, from his spirit to your spirit. And your flesh and my flesh can't comprehend that in our mortal ways. Do your best. What did you experience? Was it Still small voice? Was it a rushing mighty wind? Was it a mighty change, a burning in the bosom? Was it, you do your best to use your words. You know what Joseph said when he saw God the Father and Jesus Christ? He said, their brightness and their glory defied description. That's the best way he could express the spirit he was feeling. You try. What did you feel in that moment? It was like
SPEAKER_01:this joy, confidence in the Savior.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It's impossible to describe. It's so
SPEAKER_01:hard. I remember I couldn't stop smiling. I do remember that, and I got home so happy. I
SPEAKER_00:mean, the way Lehi tried to express it in his dream, The Tree of Life, was it was sweeter and tastier and brighter and more joy than I'd ever felt, and he wanted it for everyone else, which is where you're at now, right? You're going to go on a mission to Georgia, and you just want everyone to feel what you felt, right? Yeah. It's just because it is pure joy. So it reminds me of that story that I've told about the way I kind of won my wife over to marry me. I won't tell the whole story now, but we found ourselves in a car and I was just kind of like, I really like this girl, but there's no way I'm going to marry this girl. So I was just like, I'm going to be myself. You know what, Kristen, can I share with you a story that I read the scriptures this morning? And I read the story of Joseph Smith. I told her, hey, I've always been frustrated with the way he described his first vision because he says, I saw God and I heard God. I'm like, the scriptures don't teach that that's how we know God lives with our eyes and ears. It says it's through the Holy Ghost. I was like, Joseph, what a lost opportunity. But then I shared with my wife, my future wife, how that morning I received an answer about, no, Joseph did say, when he said their brightness and their glory defied description, he was literally saying, I can't describe the powerful brightness, glory, I don't know what other words, that the Holy Ghost was confirming to me in my heart that this is God and the Son. So I looked at my wife and said, Kristen, if Joseph knows this, that God lives and that Jesus Christ lives, not because that he saw him hurt him, but because the Holy Ghost told him, then I know exactly what he knows. I know God lives just as powerfully as he does. And I looked at my wife and she was crying because she's like, Sean, if you know and he knows that way, then I also know. I'm like, that's incredible.
SPEAKER_01:That's
SPEAKER_00:like...
SPEAKER_01:That's worth so much. It's worth so much to you, I'm sure, and it's worth so much to me. I was thinking about this the other day. I would rather have nothing more. This knowledge that Christ exists and that he loves me in my imperfection, it's awesome. And it means so much to me. Dude,
SPEAKER_00:Thacker, I'm so grateful that you come and you share your story. I'm grateful that you do the work over all these years to get to this point where... You can stand now on a rooftop on a mountain anywhere and proclaim, I know God lives, not because I told you or because your dad told you or because the scriptures even said it. You know because God the Father revealed himself to you through the power of the Holy Ghost. And that's the promise to any one of you listening. The scriptures promise that if you will seek him out, knock and ask and feast, God promises that he will reveal the truth to you. And we urge you, right Thacker? We urge you to do that. Seek it out. Because when you get it, you will be happier and feel more of God's love and feel forgiven of your sins. And you'll just want to take it to the rest of the world and serve a mission in the right way.
SPEAKER_01:It is without a doubt one of the best feelings in the world. Like the best feeling in the world to just feel that spirit and that knowledge. Like there's nothing like it.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so last question before we end. What are you going to do with that, Becker? What are you going to do with that, and what advice do you have for our listeners who are trying to prepare for their mission? I'm going to go share it with people.
SPEAKER_01:I'm going to go share people my experience and hopefully try to explain the gospel in a way that brings the spirit. And if I have to sing to them in their living room while need be, I'll do it.
SPEAKER_00:Do you remember the story of Peter? I think it was Peter, right? The women come and say, hey, Christ is gone. Like they've taken him. And they jet and they run down and they see that the tomb is open and they see he's gone. And I think at some point some of them felt the Holy Ghost realizing they didn't take him. He's resurrected, and they turn around, and they booked it. He ran to tell his friends. He ran to tell the world. Jesus is risen. He's risen, and that's how you feel.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You do. You need to run to the people of Georgia, and you need to not stop, man. You need to serve with all your heart, heart, mind, and strength, and I know you will.
SPEAKER_01:I'm so excited.
SPEAKER_00:I'm so excited for you, man. And then the other piece of advice, or what piece of advice do you have then for our listeners? You learned... You received answers to your prayers and to your seeking through a very specific way. You bore witness. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I think there's a lot of power in a testimony. There's tons of power in a personal testimony.
SPEAKER_00:Just in saying the words? Yeah, just in saying the words. Even if you just are trying to believe the words and say them.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Sometimes I've had this fear like, I don't want to be a hypocrite. I'm not totally sure I'm believing this stuff. I've had those exact same thoughts. But when you say it, it... it confirms to you that what you're saying is true and what you like, you truly believe it. And so you, you don't feel hypocritical. You feel like more truthful than you could possibly imagine.
SPEAKER_00:But just like you put in the time over the last three years, line upon line, precept upon precept, and just like I needed to walk down that mountain and start actually doing the things that are required of me, reading the scripture, serving others, the testimony bearing is, may come over time right but when we do proclaim the truth having done the hard seeking with enough faith i promise you god will answer and it's it is it's joy it is it's just pure joy
SPEAKER_01:this is so cool
SPEAKER_00:thank you the best dude i can't wait to to hear about your mission we'll report to our listeners your mission story thanks for sharing it um and be gone in October, so we will give people updates. You're going to go help people get what you got. Alright listeners, thanks for joining. We'll see you next week.
